RiceTalks

SKIM: 👋  Hello! Laughter. (😂SKIM is laughing awkwardly alone) So sorry! (SKIM is still laughing alone). Laughter. 😅 Okay. Let me, start this again.

Shay Dior: You’re the one leading this…🙄

SKIM: I know… (still laughing alone).

SKIM: Hi 🙂

Welcome~

Before we begin, I wanted to acknowledge that we are currently on the unceded and ancestral territories of the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and Sel̓íl̓witulh (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations. 

This audio will also be worked on and edited in where I will be living and working, which is the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and Sel̓íl̓witulh (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Hi, my name is SKIM, also known as Romi Kim. I am a genderfluid second generation Korean, lesbian ⚢. I think SKIM is kind of going through a very fun, interesting evolution right now. SKIM identifies as a drag king uses he/ him pronouns and is kind of monstrous, 👹 kind of demonic, a little bit buggy 🪲 and I think is known to have like 🪥 spiky teeth and known to do a lot of like dancey remix songs lately.

SKIM: And eyes? What do you mean?

Maiden China: No, 👀 I was side eyeing you for your Ed Sheeran remix.

SKIM: Oh, my gosh. 🤦‍♂️

Edited Robot voice: Okay. Shay Dior and Maiden China Make fun of him about their Ed Sheeran number. Skin defends themselves as it is only one number and they get tipped well lol.

Shay Dior: Oh my gosh.🤭 

Maiden China: Okay. No more airtime for Ed Sheeran.

SKIM, Shay Dior, Maiden China: 😂 😂 😂 

SKIM: I'm also known as Romi Kim and I am an interdisciplinary artist. I work within performance, installation video. I think about collaboration, 🇰🇷 language, what it means to build relationships and think through community.

Maiden China: My name is Kendall Yan, also known as Maiden China.

Maiden China is an intersectional feminist drag artist. I used to, like, really cling to my right to claim the title as drag queen, even though my look has not always been the most glamorous 👽. And I think that was more so out of being stubborn. Like, just because I do like androgynous drag doesn't mean that I can't be a queen. 👑 

But I have lately been thinking about how much distance I want to put between myself and that label because of RuPaul's Drag Race. Yeah, I- I never want to be asked if I'm going to be on RuPaul's Drag Race ever again 😅, because I'm just not- I'm just not going to be on it. Yeah, I've been doing drag for about six years.

I think the character of Maiden China has gone through like a lot of different changes and used to be much more 👽 alien 👾. And I think over the last few years I've been really in the pursuit of pretty  💅

like really making sure my makeup is like symmetrical and flawlessly blended and I actually want to be uglier. 😅 Laughter. So that's sort of like a thing that I'm going to pursue in the next little while.

I also am a visual artist outside of that, and I am the co-artistic Director of Queer Based Media who we make queer content for, for queer creators. We don't do 🚫 weddings. 🚫 Videography, design, photography.

SKIM: Set your boundaries.

Maiden China: Yeah, truly.

Shay Dior: My name is Van Dang. I'm a Vietnamese Canadian settler on these lands. I'm also in drag- I'm Shay Dior, Mother of the House of Rice. I am- I consider myself genderfluid fluid drag artist, kind of both king and queen. I'm both mom and dad. 👫

The House of Rice is our drag family, an all-Asian drag family in Vancouver. And I think with my drag I. I like to explore all the different types of drag. I have a very diverse repertoire of 😢 sad into emotional, into strong 💪 and to like political comedy, campy, all of the above.

🤡 I like to have fun with drag. Outside of drag, I am the founder and producer, co-producer of Ricecake Events, an event company here in Vancouver that focuses on highlighting queer Asian artists and entertainers. We do parties, we do 🥟 Drag Dimsum, and we're expanding into collaborating with a lot of other event organizations this year. Yeah.

Maiden China: Hi. 🙋‍♀️ Oh, I forgot to - I forgot to say that my pronouns are she / they and I'm a transgender person. 🏳️‍⚧️

SKIM: My pronouns are they / them and he / him in drag. 🟡⚪🟣⚫

Shay Dior: My pronouns are whatever you want. They / she / he. 🏳️‍🌈

Shay Dior: You name it. 🦄

SKIM: Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. This is SKIM talking. I'm going to be kind of guiding us through this conversation because Elliott has invited us to do so. And we love Elliott. 🫶

Maiden China: We love Elliott. 💖

SKIM: Truly such a wonderful person. 💖 💖 💖

Shay Dior: Wish you were here! 😘

SKIM: Yeah.

SKIM: Lately we've been doing a lot of podcast interview kind of things. We did one at the Museum of Vancouver and then also with Cine- evolution last year, and I thought it would be nice to have just a conversation between the three of us, have it a little bit more intimate and be able to like Kiki a little bit. 🎉 🎉 🎉

Okay so my first question, I kind of already know how the 🍚 House of Rice started, but I wanted to ask you, Shay, what was the main goal when you started the house?

Shay Dior: What do you mean, kind of? 😶 You're in it. 🫥 You need to know the history. 🙄

SKIM: Stories change always. 🫠 Okay. I wouldn't be able to tell it the same way you do.

SKIM: So I want to say kind of. 🫠

Shay Dior: 🤔 I mean, this is also a little bit of a different like direction of a question, which I appreciate. The main goal, I don't think there was really a goal when I started.

First it was me and Maiden China over here that we kind of just like were doing our thing and becoming this 👯‍♀️ dynamic duo in Vancouver, just always doing like showing up together, doing duets, doing a lot of shows, even our solos. We'd be booked for the same shows. 

And then it wasn't until Valak and Nikita came to one of our shows and then wanted to like, start doing drag and then started calling me Mom for months. 👩‍👧‍👧

And then after, when I decided that I wanted to, I started Ricecake and then I wanted to give them an opportunity to get on stage. So it was kind of at that point the goal was kind of just to provide a safe and familiar support system to Valak and Nikita, because they're both from families in China, and they had no idea queer culture, and they never in their like world would have thought that they were ever going to see drag in real life.

So that that moment of meeting them and getting this like immediate sense of comfort and family, I just wanted to provide that safe space for them and inspire them to just live authentically and explore the art of drag and gender expression. 🧚🏻‍♀️ And then I kind of just came to a realization that that was like a great - a way to create, like a calling us a house and establishing a family 👩‍👩‍👧‍👧 was the way to give them that safe space to explore.

SKIM: I think it's really lovely to hear you talk about it because it seems like it was all about like building relationships and like really building safety and comfort with one another. Was it called House of Rice from the very beginning? 🍙 

Shay Dior: Yes. I when I like, felt like there was enough people to kind of create like establish something called a house. I went with the word “rice” because of, one we’re all Asian and it's like a core in like meals and cuisine, but also because rice has just such limitless potential.

🍙 🍚 🌾 🍶 🍛 🍣 🍜 

There's so many variations of rice, such as noodles, rice sheets, rice paper like rice can become so many different things. And I want to inspire queer Asians to realize that they have the potential to become anything as well. ✨

Maiden China: But before it was House of Rice, 🙆‍♀️ we were just a single parent household.

SKIM: 😂 🤣

Shay Dior: 🙄 We still are single parent household.🙄

Maiden China: 💁‍♀️ No we have Bella. 🤷‍♀️

SKIM: 😁  Bella- an incredible nonbinary DJ who also co-produces Ricecake with Shay Dior.

Shay Dior: Yes. Zaddyyyyy. 😁

SKIM: So what was the order of adoption and then when did you start calling it House of Rice?

Shay Dior: We started calling a House of Rice in 2018.

2017 was just 👩‍🎤 me and Maiden China. 👾

And then the order of adoption would be Valak, Nikita. 👭🏻

At the same time, they're the twins of the House. 🧜‍♀️ 🧜‍♀️

Mary-Kol Whip and then Ploy Pailin 🧚🏼‍♀️

and Pangolin, and then Kara Juku, 💃

and then 🩰Jas Minh, SKIM, You, 👹

🍜Lulu Lomein and Bongganisa. 👻

SKIM: Nice.

Shay Dior: I believe. I think that’s right.

Maiden China: I wasn't adopted. I'm a birthchild. 😎

SKIM, Shay Dior, Maiden China: 🤭 😂

SKIM: Question. Question for you, Maiden. Were you ever jealous of any of your siblings? 😝

Maiden China: This is such a pointed question, and it's wild that it's the first question that you're asking me. Um, I mean, I'm a Scorpio, so I'm very. 🦂 🦂 🦂

The short answer is yes. Um, what I do with that jealousy is a different story. I'd like to think that I, I don't let that inform my actions, but yeah, I think so. Especially because, like, when I started doing drag, I was, like, trying to figure out, like, where I kind of, like, landed, like what my aesthetic was and what my style was.

And then I ended up just being like very weird. And especially at the time, there weren't like as many drag things or drag weirdoes and especially doing like the kinds of songs that I was doing. And so, I feel like I had to like really hustle to, like, get people to recognize what I did as being, like, just as good as the, like, polished dance queens. 💃

And so, when Shay started to adopt like these, like super beautiful, like, you know, some of them are so good at dancing and it was just like, wow, they're all like, so commercially appealing. And so, yeah, of course, I think like, I have jealousy around that kind of stuff because I just don't, I don't have those skills. 😵‍💫

And I think that it's like. My drag is just like not as entertaining in that sense, if that makes sense. Like, it's really it's, it's not for everyone. And yeah. Whereas I think that there's like in a more commercial appeal like that kind of like really, really like polish dancing drag is like, really acceptable, like almost everywhere drag has shown. Yeah.

Just because of the conventions.

Shay Dior: It’s okay, your drag tickles a different part of the brain. 🧠

Maiden China: It's true. And sometimes more than the brain. 🦶

Shay Dior: Truly. 😹

SKIM: 😹 Yes, very. That. Um, Shay, or let's start with Maiden actually, what do you think the House of Rice means to you?

Maiden China: Hmm.

Maiden China: It's a big question. I don't know. I think it's come to mean like a lot of different things. I think definitely when it started, it was a lot of the feelings of I think that Shay and I, when it was just the two of us and before it became a house and like how hard we were pushing, like just like the representation of our identities on stage.

And so once we sort of had a house, then it started to feel like, yes, we're still doing that. But we also have this like really beautiful, like community of our own, rather than just like standing in like white, dominantly white dominated spaces and being like, we're also here.

You know, it kind of felt like it's like this thing for ourselves, which is really nice. Um yeah, 🤧 it's just family to me and. I. Like, looking at Shay right now.

I'm like, right, we're not being filmed.

Looking at Shay, I love you so much. Like, so, so much. 💓 💗 💖

I don't have a relationship with my birth mother. And before I actually had a relationship with you. Like this is the kind of dynamic I've always wanted, you know, since I was like a young teenager and I've yearned for it so much. And, yeah, I could go on and on.

So to me, it's like it's such a personal thing on one level. But then I know that it also stands for something in the community, and maybe those things are kind of the same thing. I don't know, you know.

SKIM: Shay, what do you think? 

Shay Dior: What about you?

Maiden China:Yeah. What about you, SKIM?

SKIM: 😶 Yeah, sure I can go.

Shay Dior: I want to hear first. Yeah.

SKIM: I resonate with everything that you said (Maiden). I think it's, like, important politically within our community. But I also think it's extremely important like personally for me, because I think I was only living in Vancouver for, like, I think six months and I was already, like, depressed and lonesome and I wasn't sure where I was going.

So, I decided to like, join this drag competition and that's how I met you (Shay Dior) and got adopted into this house. And so that adoption like gave me relationships 💞 and I feel like I got to meet you (Maiden China).

And we became really good artist collaborators and like, even being able to work with the House of Rice in my own artistic practice and like, bring them to the Polygon, like in different ways. I thought about the house not as just like a place of like being together and with family, but also like new ways of being seen 👁 and like, new ways of like creating art with one another too. So I think yeah.

Shay Dior: For me, yeah. Like both of you talked about like the, the having a sort of community of our own as a family. I think that was that's a huge part of it. I love that I can. Uh, if there's anything like, anything that happens in my life, like, I can, like when I decided to come out to my Mom that I’m doing drag I, the first thing I did was message the house chat and just, like, let everyone know. 👩‍👩‍👧‍👧 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦. 👩‍👩‍👧‍👧

Like, that was like, I can have that support and like, I know that I'm going to, like, always going to have a good time whenever I'm, like, reaching out to all of you. For me, it was like going back to the last question, like it was a big part of focusing on building this house was to create the representation and the visibility in the community in a very white dominated community. And it has done so, like over the past three. Almost four years. Yeah. For about I think about four years of this house expanding.

We're now at 11 members, but because of this, there are probably 15 to 20 new Asian drag performers in the city. ✨ Having this entity as a source of inspiration and motivation to kind of break away from traditional Asian stereotypes like in your life, to explore this queer side of you and your queer identity and gender expression has is such an impact to the community.

But for myself, it's just been such a like a lovely family to have around at. Whether it's in a bar setting and going to shows and just seeing each other and like knowing that, like knowing that we have like family nearby or just doing our own like family outings, like barbecue in my backyard or dim sum together. 🥟

Like these things are such precious moments. My family is back in Ontario, so I don't see them often. So it's nice to have my other family here. Very accessible, very reachable all at all times.

Shay Dior: Yeah. 💕 I love you all. 💕

SKIM: Love you too. 💕 💞 💓 💗

Maiden China: Love you. 💕 💞 💓 💗 💖

Shay Dior: Too. And like, I just want to clear this up too. I always think about because the three of us do a lot of things together that, like, people are like, these are the favorites.

But I also want to point out that, like, the three of us have such different identities and different viewpoints within the house. So I, like it's always such a special thing to hear your both of your thoughts.

Maiden China: But more so mine because I'm the favorite.

Maiden China, Shay Dior, SKIM: Laughter. 😂 🤣

Shay Dior: I didn't say that specifically.

SKIM: I'm editing it. SKIM is the favorite. 😂

SKIM: Are there any responsibilities to being a part of the house?

Maiden China: I mean, yeah, I think the short answer is yes. I think. I guess. How do I say this? Being like a. A front facing public person in general carries like any sort of responsibility, like social responsibility that you have in the way that you conduct yourself. 🫡

But I think like specifically, I hold my relationships with all of you in such high regard, and I consider what we all do to be of great quality. And so, I think like even just as a baseline, like I feel a responsibility to like put my best foot forward when I'm like working and when I'm like interacting with people in the community because they're not only interacting with just me, but also with like with the House of Rice as like an entity, What I do will also reflect on the way that- 🍚

The, the reputation of of the house. Those things are like they're bound together. So yeah, I see that as like a definitely a responsibility of how I conduct myself.

Shay Dior: What do you think of responsibilities?

SKIM: I 😅 it's funny because, like a lot of people tell me to, like, be a drag parent and like, like I'd be such a good drag parent. And they're like, you should start your own house scam. I'm like, No way. Like, I don't want any responsibilities. Like, I don't like having responsibilities. I don't like organizing things. Like, I get very overwhelmed 😅 when I have to, like, I think produce things, even though I do, do producing. And I think like I generally really love working with people.

Edited robot voice: 😵 😵‍💫 Skim doesn't like their answer, so they are editing this to say sometimes they get in their head about being the only drag king in the House of Rice. 👑

SKIM: But or maybe at the very beginning I was like a little bit intimidated by it. But I think now I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm part of the House of Rice. Like, it's kind of just like a normal thing now. 🍚 🍚 🍚

Shay Dior: Hmm. I think, well, as mother of the house, my responsibilities are very different.

SKIM: You have so many.🥲 😂

Shay Dior: But I feel like they've definitely lightened a lot. Like starting out with all the expanding into having so many more members. A lot of the responsibility I for me, was, um. We were getting a lot of attention and booking requests and wanting to get a few of us at shows and stuff like that or group numbers and stuff.

So, a lot of my responsibility was organizing and managing us as a group in terms of bookings. Figuring out rates, like negotiating all of these things, planning and then like big projects and productions. But being a producer for events, I was like, it wasn't. It was very manageable and like dealing with the communication to get everyone ready for these shows and events. Um but now everyone has started performing a lot more actively and going to do their own thing at different shows.

So now I can see that everyone is thriving and getting booked and blessed. 😇 

So, a lot of the responsibility around managing and making sure everyone has bookings and stuff has fallen off of me. And I like, I can just I love just sitting back and seeing all the posters of different House members with different shows and just knowing how everyone is like, I have no- I have no concerns around reputation or like representing the House because I'm so proud of everyone and everyone's been doing such a good job. Everyone, as you said, holds like the, the relationships and like the House entity's like reputation at a high regard. And yeah, I'm just really proud of everyone and that's been really nice. 🤩 🥳

SKIM: I'm proud of you. 😍

Shay Dior: Thanks. 🥹🥰

SKIM: Yeah. You're a very good producer and a very good mom.

Shay Dior: I’m the spreadsheet queen. 👑

SKIM: You really are.

Maiden China: Truly. Oh, my goodness.

SKIM: All the Excel spreadsheets. Laughter. 😂

Maiden China: Google Drive game so strong. 💪 😸

Shay Dior: Google Drive memory. Full. 🙀

Maiden China: She's Google driven.

SKIM: We need a friggin sponsorship. From Google Drive.

Maiden China, Shay Dior, SKIM: Laughter. 😹 😹 😹

Edited Robot voice: Hello, Google Drive. House of Rice is open for sponsorships.

SKIM: umm, how do you think the House influences your drag?

Shay Dior: I think that House influences my drag by continually keeping me on my toes and pushing me um. Yeah. I feel like I sometimes will get into, like a pattern if I'm doing a lot of bookings and stuff and then kind of fall back onto staple numbers and like things, I'm comfortable um, most comfortable in performing.

But the House of Rice, the diversity in the house, the different styles of drag, like always, always, I think pushing me to like, step it up and make sure that I'm like continually improving as well and not just getting comfortable or complacent.

Maiden China: Yeah, I would echo that. I think like being able to see so many different styles of drag, like in proximity, like within the realm of what we do definitely has its effect on, on me and I think like sharing a studio with y'all, um I find myself like. I don't know. Even with like certain things in makeup where I'm like, Oh, that's a cool thing.

Like, I want to try that. Or like, I don't know. The other day, Shay, you were putting on so many, like, gems and shiny things and I was like. Oh, maybe I should go back to 💎 Rhinestoning my entire face, you know?

So, it's just like I think a lot of times it's just like a reminder of like, yeah, exactly. Not to be stagnant and pick out different things. I think. SKIM You bring out a lot of 🤡 humor in me and a lot of sad bitch energy. 😿

SKIM: 😂 😂 😂

Maiden China: I think I feel like when we collaborate, it's either like super silly or very serious. So yeah, I think like those kinds of things, you know?

SKIM: Nice, nice. For myself. I think I agree with both of you. I think the house kind of pushes me to be more polished because I think when I started track or maybe when everyone starts drag, it's like it's definitely just like you're just there to, like, perform. You're like trying to get yourself seen. And I feel like that's definitely like my energy.

Like I'm mostly interested in just like performing and like just feeling that energy in my body, but like being a part of the house. I've definitely taken more consideration into like my look, I think, and like polished outfits, something that I think I want to just like, remind myself of. Is like I have an ethic of like trying not to buy fast fashion. 👚 👖

I think a lot of our just like members of our community and drag and fashion or drag is generally used to like buying things online and using it just like a few times. And then just like constantly buying new kind of cheap fashion. 👚 👖

Maiden China: It's the RuPaul's Drag Race effect. 🤮

SKIM: Yeah.

Maiden China:  It truly is because like in the early seasons, it was still like very like Project Runway style, like showing them making outfits. And it was like very much like you didn't have to take out a loan to go on the show. 💰 💰 💰

And now it's like everyone has just like the most extravagant, expensive outfits to go on a show to win. Like they spend more than the prize money on what they're wearing. And it creates this environment where everyone thinks that like every time they step out, they have to be wearing something new.

And the only way to do that in a city like Vancouver is to order fast fashion because everything is so expensive, like your cost of living is already so high.

Shay Dior : Yeah, you used to be celebrated for your design skills and what you put on that runway and now it's what you buy and you just have to be able to act well enough that they won't edit you out.

SKIM: Yeah, So I think something that I like, I put a rule for myself. It's like everything that I wear, I'm going to try and either borrow, make myself or thrift.

Shay Dior: And honestly, there's like so many ways you can restyle the same, like article of clothing in so many different ways and give you a completely different look. And I don't think people realize that. And they're always buying new outfits, definitely.

Maiden China: Yeah. Or thrift.

SKIM: Yeah.

SKIM: Moving on to our next question. We often get these questions in interviews of like, what does it mean to be visible? What does it mean to be a drag performer who's also Asian? And basically, like the question of what does representation mean to you? I wanted to actually ask, like, what is getting this question like to you? What do you usually answer and what do you actually want to say?

Maiden China: 🙄 I think getting this question is kind of annoying, um I think. I can see why people ask it and there is like a value to it. But I think at a certain point I, I guess by this point I figured I wouldn't be asked it anymore because like, there has to be somewhere else to go as a performer who is like a visible minority or who is just like not white. 

That is more, like an opportunity to speak on more than just like, what is it like to be like a marginalized person in a sea of whiteness?

So yeah, I think like I usually answer like, you know, that it is very important for people who don't have the experience of seeing themselves on stage and all those things. And those are all true, but it is also like 😵‍💫  it's taxing, it's taxing, trying to think about like from every angle, like how does my drag reflect the values of my community and how is that even possible? Is that even possible?

In a lot of ways, I don't think that it can be all encompassing and can reflect, you know, everyone. And it's just like a constant battle. And sometimes I just don't. I don't want to. Only be valued for being not white. 😅 Does that make sense? Yeah, because I think there's so much more and it's just like it's also like so much pressure and responsibility. I don't know. I feel like I'm rambling, but it's annoying.

Shay Dior: Yeah. I mean, like, I think when we I started getting this question, I was like, very like just this is like, I want to talk about this. This is like the best thing. And then over the years of multiple interviews and podcasts and documentaries, like I now, it just feels like when I feel like an imposter, when I'm answering now it's like the whole imposter syndrome.

Like I'm repeating my answer every time, which is, I guess, like you said, it's important for you to represent and be, be visible. That's kind of like a huge part of my life now. When I was like when I was like growing up and coming out as a teenager, I was like, I'm never going to be an activist because I didn't get, like, bullied or anything. I had a good support system, but realizing that a lot of people don't have that, it became a big part of me.

And to try and push for this increase in visibility for the community. But now, just like having to answer the question so many times in so many different ways, it has caused this sort of like. Robotic. 🤖 

Like I feel like a robot when I'm answering it because I'm. I've already remembered, like, remembering what I've said before, just trying to, like, reiterate it in a more elegant and better fashion. But like I, I still realize the importance of it. But like you said, there's other ways. There's other ways to go. Like, I have a CBC documentary on YouTube, like two of them, I think. And then you have. Maiden China has Yellow Peril. There's a lot of articles that we've interviewed for. So, it's. Yeah. It's like a new interview. Shouldn't be the first thing you hear or the first place for you to hear our answers, I think.

SKIM: Yeah, I think whenever I get that question, I always like a little bit snippy and I'm like, It's a burden. Like every time, like it's a burden. It's complicated, like.

Shay Dior: Double edged sword.

SKIM: Yeah, it's a double-edged sword. And then, like, in the moment, like, while we're talking about what? Like, what do I actually want to say? It's like, I just want to say, like, it's so nuanced and so complex for every single person and like to be so focused on a certain part of our identity is to almost simplify it.

So, I think there's like a different way for us to answer it every single time because it's so complex. And I think like for me being Korean second generation and I do use aspects of my culture into my drag sometimes, but I wouldn't necessarily say that that's like the core root of it. But then I, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's like forgotten either, because I think I'm always going to be Korean. I'm always Korean even on stage.

Shay Dior: You think… 🤭

SKIM: Like it's just complicated. Like you can't I can't separate the things and I can't really explain to you in simple words of like what it means or like, what does it mean to be represented? Because I think, yeah, representation is just constantly a burden.

Maiden China: Yeah, I also just, I feel like when a lot of times we get that question and then follow up questions, just like don't seem to probe any deeper. And so that's the thing is that like, I feel like it really, it's like, um. It's like this thing where the only opportunity to speak about what you do is related to your identity in that way.

And I recently saw a documentary where most of the people being interviewed were white, and the one person who was not white was Japanese, and they were only asked about their racialized experience and they were. They were all elders. And this particular person was talking about how, you know, back in the seventies, that's what their experience was like.

So, it was like now 40 what how many years is that? 50 years. 50 years later, they're being asked the same stuff and they're being given the same opportunity to speak about the same thing, whereas the white people get asked a myriad of all of these interesting questions about what their experiences were like. 

And I just think that there's something there where it's meant to bring in, something about racialized experience, but then it shuts it down. And it's- it's weird. I don't know. There's something there that feels like it's supposed to be like expanding the conversation, but then also a silencing at the same time.

Shay Dior: It's like just asking you the checklist of questions to ask and that's it. Like, there's no.

SKIM: It feels very surface level. I think I wish people would like almost like use specific references almost, and then ask the question or like, what did it mean for us when we did the performances at the Sun Yat-Sen Garden or like, like, what does that kind of experience mean rather than just like, what does it mean to be Asian and doing drag? 😅

Shay Dior: Yeah, like the the Sun Yat-Sen Garden question. I would love something like that.

SKIM: Yeah.

Shay Dior: It gives me something to reflect on and actually think about then my entire life as a person. Like that's. Yeah, it's too broad.

Maiden China: Yeah. Which is like impossible. 

SKIM: No, that performance was so beautiful. I'm just thinking about the activating the Sun Yat-Sen Garden. And I wanted to ask how you felt about that performance, that experience?

Shay Dior: For those of you who don't know, we did this activation sort of live exhibit where Strangemmmaker and Harperteeth were our tattoo artists and they had brought stencils that were. Stencils of porcelain pattern work that was based on each of our own cultures. So, I had like Vietnamese porcelain, SKIM had Korean porcelain and Jas Minh had Vietnamese porcelain Maiden China, had Chinese porcelain, and they just placed all these stencils all over our bodies and we became a live exhibit and pieces of art and walked around the Sun Yet-San Garden, Yeah.

Maiden China: Mm hmm. 

Maiden China: Yeah. It's every time I've gotten to perform, there has been such a rewarding experience. And I think just because, like, it's one of my favorite places in the city, it's such a beautiful garden and all of the architecture is so stunning.

And but I also think, like, I don't know, as a young person, I just never really, there's no way I ever saw that for myself doing something so queer, but also like, respected by this like cultural arts hub in the city. That's, that's also like so I don't know when I think about traditional spaces. It's taken them a lot to get to the point of hosting events like that. So, it's very special. I think that we got to do that. ✨

SKIM: Yeah.

SKIM : Yeah. I think I felt like the most 🪄 magic in that performance, which I didn't really expect because I didn't really know what we're doing that day. 😂

Maiden China: I don't think any of us knew what we were doing. Yeah.

Maiden China, SKIM, Shay Dior: Laughter. 😂 😅  😂

SKIM: Yeah, but truly it was so wonderful where we, like, sat on those chairs and yeah, I really thought about like the gaze as well because we just kept like looking at one another and interacting, but like, not speaking, which I thought was really beautiful, but it was purely just like an hour of us, just like posing and lingering and like spending some time in that space, which I felt was like quite meditative and yeah, special. ✨

Shay Dior: Yeah, it was an immersive experience. But I also like because of the way we were holding ourselves dramatically and ethereally, I could see that the all the guests were. Not intimidated but like were definitely afraid to get close to us.

Maiden China: And a little confused. Yeah, which was really fun.

SKIM: Which was, yeah, yeah.

Shay Dior: Yeah.

Shay Dior: But I was like, feel free to come closer and take photos. But also, I'm not going to say that because I'm holding this-

Maiden China: That's the thing is I kept feeling this impulse like I wanted to help them, like feel more comfortable in what was happening, but then also getting sort of a little bit of 😜 joy out of the fact that everyone was really confused and a little uncomfortable. Just a little bit of challenge, I think, for the audience, which, which is cool.

Shay Dior: They're definitely expecting like performances or like a group number or something. But it was yeah, it was just an experimental, like artistic project that we wanted to do and present.

SKIM: Yeah, it was very exciting. Like I felt like I was like teasing them and like being very coy and just like looking around and looking at them or like, yeah. 👀 

Maiden China: I also thought that you (SKIM) were going to jump into the koi pond because I remember you were like standing so close to the edge of the water and I was watching you and I was like, oh my God, are they just going to jump into the water right now. 🌊

SKIM: Laughter 😅 😂

Maiden China: I feel like you were thinking about it.

SKIM: I was thinking about it.😅 😂

SKIM: But once I, like, stood up, I could see like the director coming towards me and like I was still walking around, but they were like, they whisper to me, they're like, “don’t go near there again.”

Shay Dior: Oh my God. Maybe I need to be worried about the reputation from you.

Maiden China: Oh, my goodness. Oh, my god. 😂

SKIM: Um I think this is a fun question. I'm excited to hear your thoughts about this. So, I think humor is a huge part of drag. Puns Are both a part of your name Maiden China and Shay Dior, which I didn't realize until like a year of knowing you. 🤣

Shay Dior: It's my favorite thing. I've like when I came up with the name, I was just like, I want something that sounds elegant, but there's like a pun that, like, you just don't expect. Everyone thinks it's just like a brand name, but then when they figure it out, they're like, Oh my God. I literally had a friend from LA who I knew before starting Drag. Three years into drag, he came to visit Vancouver and actually got to see my show and then flew back home and a week later messages me and said, I just got your name. I was like, You're welcome. 😜 Every time I get a text, Huh?

Maiden China: It's a little Easter egg. 

Shay Dior: Yes. Every time I get that message, I'm like, yes, another one.

SKIM: Me every time. Mine is not funny at all. Because I'm a very serious person.

Shay Dior: So serious.

SKIM: But of course, people always like to make it into a joke on stage. Whenever they host me, they're like, Oh, SKIM milk. And then I'm like, no, because I'm lactose intolerant.

Shay Dior: See, I would never make that joke because I'm respectful. My joke was.

Shay Dior: Your Skimbaaaa. Always wanted to be a King. 🦁

SKIM: So cute. Laughter  😂

Shay Dior: No one else laughed at that joke. It was so funny.

Shay Dior: It's the best joke. It was. It was the right when you decided to go the King direction, and I was like, this is a great joke. Crickets. 🫥 

Shay Dior: Except Paul. Paul loved it. Laughter. 😂

SKIM: Anyways, my question is, what ways do you think humor is important to drag or to your drag? How does puns, jokes and camp function within the drag community?

Shay Dior: I think with like drag having this creative, creative power and so much like the potential to literally do anything with your drag because there are almost no rules to drag adding or focusing on fun and humor elements in your drag is such an important thing.

Shay Dior: To help yourself not enjoy this. This industry, because life in general is chaotic and is so serious a lot of times and so many things happen in our lives that having humour in this creative work that we do, I think is really important to make sure that you still love it.

Maiden China: Yeah, I mean, there was like almost no, I, I, I made my drag have almost no room for humor for so long. And I really cherish all of the numbers that I did and all of the work that I produced. But it does become a lot. I think it's a conversation that Continental Breakfast and I have often where, you know, when you're on stage,

doing something that's really sad or maybe dealing with a lot of like traumatic energy and content, the way your body feels it. It’s as though you're experiencing it again or firsthand or whatever, you know, like when I'm doing a ballad and I'm like crying on stage, I know in my head I'm performing, but my body feels it in a very real way.

And so, yeah, I would echo what you just said is like I started to introduce humor because, like, it's just it's a lot to do all the time. It's like very exhausting in a very specific way. And I'm sure it's doing something to my, my brain patterns. But I think, yeah, having humor is just like it's nice to be able to go and have the stakes be lower and to center joy, you know?

🙂 And it's also your emulating joy so you feel joyful in your body on like a, like a molecular level. So, yeah, I think, I think it's important just for your wellbeing to like experience that. And then also there's community functions of, of humor, which is nice to have too, because it's a really difficult existing in this world as a queer person. So yeah.

Shay Dior: Yeah. I think like when I do ballads, like, as much as it's, I feel like it heals me to put that out in the world and also like, see how emotional other people can get.

Watching me do a ballad and I know like my mouth is performing in a sense of like getting those like breaths and emotion and vulnerability in the performance. But like you said, my body is actually feeling it. Like, my hand will be shaking during like a huge part. And that's not that was that won't be on purpose.

It's because I'm like my body is so into the song that it's replicating what I would be feeling if in that mental state. So, it definitely is hard.

Maiden China: Yeah. And like, yeah, I like that you mentioned that because there is, there is an element of healing that comes with confronting difficult subject matter and processing vulnerable emotions on stage.

It's very healing, I think for a lot of people to see those kind of things and to have to even know that they're in a space where they can outwardly express those kind of emotions with their friends and with their community members. But it does come at a cost. You know, there is there. Is that.

SKIM: It’s cathartic

Maiden China: Yeah, yeah. So, you're spending something to get that right?

SKIM: Yeah. I think feelings are also contagious, which I think is really amazing because when you're performing on stage, whether it's humorous or you're trying to heal yourself through like a sad ballad, it's amazing to see that reflected in like the audience as well because they feel it with you. 

Something I think a lot about when I see humorous drag is like drag is so silly. 😅 Like at the end of the day, we're like adults putting on like a lot of makeup and like lip synching a song. And it's so it's just funny. And I think I forget sometimes because I do a lot of like kind of serious drag or like drag that makes me feel like I'm like, centered in my body and like, things that kind of feel really good to me.

And then when I watch humorous drag, I kind of like go back to like, Oh, drag is play like we're playing or trying to find space, like a safe space to play.

Shay Dior: My favorite way of describing drag now is from you (SKIM). When you told me, isn’t it funny that our job is pretending to sing? 

Maiden China, Shay Dior, SKIM: Laughter. 😂 😂 😂

Shay Dior: And I've never forgot about that, and I'm like, wow, this is. Hey parents-

Shay Dior: This is my life path. Pretending I just pretend to sing. 😂

SKIM: Yes, yes, my ex-girlfriend told me that.

Shay Dior: But it like it puts it into perspective. I'm like, You're 100% correct. It's very funny. That is all we practice to do.

Shay Dior: But there's like, so many other, like, factors to it and like other things that we do. But at the core, yeah, we're just pretending to sing,

Maiden China: Just dress up.

Shay Dior: It's pretty campy, which is funny because like, I think a couple of weeks ago a friend of ours said the house is like, isn't campy, we'd love to see camp. And I was like, What? No camp? The three of us have done lots of camp.

Maiden China: Honey, listen, I'm camp.

Shay Dior: You're a camp counselor. Like, have I. Have a number about the pineapple pen and a pineapple jumpsuit? What do you mean? We're not camp/

SKIM: My new brand is bad magic.

Shay Dior: I just literally.

Maiden China: I have a number where I'm just a goat and I scream to a Taylor Swift song.

Shay Dior: Oh, my god? And your t shirt reveals. The camp. Yes.

SKIM: I have multiple numbers where I just eat food on stage.

Shay Dior: Yeah listeners, House of Rice is camp.

Edited Robot Voice: I am confirming that House of Rice does camp. And is camp camp, camp, camp.

SKIM: What words would you use to describe yourself versus your drag?

SKIM: You. Should I go first? Yeah. Okay. 

SKIM: I think. Romi is a little bit lost all the time. 😅 😂 Like, literally, I'm like, I often will message Shay and be like, my favorite thing to do lately is just to follow you and eat yummy food. 😅 😂

Shay Dior: Can confirm. 😅 😂 

SKIM: Yeah. And I think I don't really have a very good sense of time. And I think I get very introspective and like, I'm often like, thinking about projects that I want to do or like things that I want to do with like my artistic kind of career, I guess. But then my drag, I think is kind of like my outlet to like.

One, I think it's been like an incredible place for me to just like, create relationships and make friends and then also find space for myself to just kind of like really unpack what femininity and masculinity looks like to me and like what I can do in order to like.

Break it down and feel kind of monstrous in like an empowered way. I think my drag is not necessarily like what I think or who I think I am, but I think it's like ways for me to explore different, different spaces of myself that I think I don't usually get to see in real life.

Shay Dior: I think for me, I've always liked growing up. I've always been super sociable, very talkative. I used to get in trouble and have to write lines for talking too much in class. 

I loved just making friends with everyone, all that, the typical like social butterfly and then getting into drag. I think that carried over. And I always thought like drag was just an extension of myself and it was not a different character, it was not a different persona. It was just me more, more flamboyant and more campy on that topic.

It was more fun louder than I already am. But I think in the past couple of years, Shay has just taken that side of me and really just presented that side and then me out of drag. I've taken a step back and have become a little more introverted and explored that side of that side of me, like the homebody side of me.

Um I've learned to love that a lot more now. Yeah, I think also, just like my drag side is like, so colorful and like, like I put so much effort into, like, outfits and looks at like, out of drag. I just like a nice, simple life.

SKIM: Wear all black.

Shay Dior: All black, all white. You know, neutrals don't put any thought into my outfits as much.

Maiden China: Um, yeah, I don't know. I also, I think for myself, I have always thought of my drag self also as an extension of me. Like I don't really see Maiden China as being entirely a different character.

I see her as being like an exaggerated. Ah. Like, um. Like.

A lot of the traits of Maiden China, I think, are just things that I like have in myself, but are like so much more like turned up to 11 when I'm in drag. And like, I think a big difference is like, especially when I started, I was like so much more insecure in my, like daily life than when I was doing drag. It was like I felt so powerful and like, so sexy and scary and like, like you said, monstrous.

And like, it was just so much more room to take the things that I already knew I had. And the longer I've been doing drag and maybe it's also just like a part of getting older, but I think like the gap between us is closing, you know?

And I feel more often like I do in drag when I'm not in drag, not all the time. Like I think, you know, experience, like lived experience is always like it's not linear. So, but yeah, I think I don't know. I think that we're becoming the extension is closing. Merging. We're merging for better or for worse. 😅 Um.

Shay Dior: Yeah, I definitely see like over the past years, like you're out of drag. Confidence and security has gone so up so much more. It's grown so much.

Maiden China: That translates to I'm being less than annoying. 😅

Shay Dior: Way cockier. Yeah. 😂

Maiden China: Yeah, yeah. I don't know. And like, just on the topic of, like, you're like spending so much time like, dress, I used to spend so much more time and money and energy on, like, dressing myself in drag.

And I think I've been putting a lot more energy in the last couple of years into like buying myself clothes and, like, thinking more about, like, how I want to present. I mean, also I like started transitioning a couple of years ago.

So that has changed things for me too. But I think I've been putting a lot more care into myself off stage and maybe that's also part of the reason why that gap is closing, because I'm starting to like value, you know, myself, not just as a public figure, but as like the person that I live with, you know? You know. Yeah.

SKIM: What are the best parts of drag for you?

Shay Dior: I think the best part to drive for me is the just like the creative process of like. What you said, coming up with a story or like, like finding something in a song that I can translate and. Make, entertain, like make enjoyable for an audience. And like finding ways to be creative about it because, like, I'm not a dancey artist as well.

I'm not like a huge choreo performer because I sweat way too much and my makeup will not last through a whole song. But I like creating a story and I like, like taking the audience in like, on the direction that I'm going. And then, yeah.

Maiden China: I don't know. There's a lot of stuff I love about drag. I really love makeup, as frustrating as it can be. I really love putting myself in drag. Like the Yeah, I guess like the process of, like, getting into drag.

I also like making things for drag, but I feel like I just never give myself enough time or like, I don't think about it until it's kind of too late. But I find like, when I've had time to, like, make an outfit or make a prop and like, sit down and be able to do that kind of stuff is like really like the meat of that, like hands on creative stuff.

It’s like, so, so fun and makes me feel like closer to like the number that I'm performing. If I knew that I like, like, made the things for it, you know? Yeah. So, like, as much as I all of the things that I'm like this is the best part is also I'm like, but I also hate it.

I love interacting with the audience. Like, I really love like having kind of like, you know, those parts of a number that aren't planned. That is just about like the eye contact with you. Meet with this one person or like, I don't know, so and so when to tip you. And then they like, held your hand. 

So, then you were able to like, do a back band and like, like that kind of stuff that just like there's no plan for it. And it's just like very specifically with like one or like a few people I think is like really special because it's so spontaneous and you can't, you just can't recreate that from number to number. It's so specific. So like, as much as I hate the audience, I loved them too. 🫶

Shay Dior: We love you. 🫶

SKIM: It's funny when I first said this question, like, what's your favorite part about drag? My immediate thought was, oh, taking a break. 😅 😂

Shay Dior: The vacation time. 😅 😂

SKIM: Not doing it. But like, I really do love drag. And like, as much as I complain about it, like, my favorite part is probably like what you just said made in is like the performing aspect of it because I feel like it's the most in my body that I feel. And I feel like time feels very like strange to me when I'm performing as well.

Like it either goes like so quickly or it feels like I'm really just like feeling the music and each performance like it's so different because of course it's like it's a performance, it's temporary. It's something that only you and the people in that room really experience.

So, I think there's like a bit of magic with drag. And I also like that it's a practice and like it's constantly like growing and changing and like those of us who are in the drag community. We’re very like supportive of one another when we're trying to change and do different things or like trying to do a different number and like we noticed like specific things about each other, which I think is really beautiful.

Shay Dior: Yeah, prop making is yeah, like you said, prop making is one of my favorite things to do, especially because I like to do things on a budget. But I work really well under pressure. I work the best under pressure. So, a lot of the times my best ideas come like two days before the number. Yeah. And I'm like, how am I going to get this done.

Maiden China: But then when you do get it done and you did it on a budget and you're like, Wow, I'm a genius.

SKIM: Yeah.

Shay Dior: Everyone's like, stunning. And I was like- That's made of dollar store material and spray paint. Yeah.

SKIM: And it's so exciting just to, like, show people. It'd be like, I made this custom. 🤓

Maiden China: Yeah.

SKIM: Okay. Moving on to, like, the opposite side of this question, what do you think is like the biggest challenges of drag?

Maiden China: Being perceived and like continually on a community basis. I think because like, it's such a weird. . . struggle. Yeah.

SKIM: I definitely resonate with that. Like sometimes I just like, get in my head of like, oh, this is what they expect of me. This is what I should do, but I actually want to do something else.

Maiden China: Yeah.

Maiden China: Or also just feeling weird sometimes I'm like, I don't know. There's a lot of people because I also like bartend and so, like, I'm, I, I have like micro interactions with a lot of people who come to, like, event space and then they also know me as a performer.

But there's like a weird thing where sometimes it's like you have relationships with people. But I think that because they see me onstage. Age the or like seem like Instagram and stuff. There's like an assumption that they know so much about me and

I'm the type of person where I'm just like, 😅 that makes me want to, like, push them away because I'm just like, no, like, yes. But no. I think there's just so, so many more things. And also, I think like sometimes people put you on a pedestal and I'm like, no, I'm a trash human being. 💩 Like. Stop saying stuff, saying nice things about me. I don't know. Yeah.

Shay Dior: Yeah, I would say the same. I think the sort of self-doubt that comes as well. I feel like I'm pretty grounded and what's the word? I'm very like I'm very. Yeah, grounded. I'm very happy with myself. 😌 But I think whenever I um.

See, like as much like earlier I mentioned that like when I see other performers, I'm like inspired and motivated to, like, push it. But I also. The other side of that is I start doubting what I planned or like what I want to do.

And I mean, the doubt is part of the reason that helps with the, the push. But it sucks to like, feel that and overthink and worry that maybe my drag isn't good enough or isn't going to be up to par with other performers in the lineup.

Maiden China: Yeah.

SKIM: Yeah. I don't really get that too. Like sometimes I compare myself and I'm like, oh, I shouldn't do that. Like. Yeah, just like stay true to like who SKIM is rather than comparing and being like, Oh, what if I'm not funny enough? What if I'm not, like, entertaining enough? What if I'm not sad enough? I don't know. I definitely get in my head. I think those are the biggest challenges.

Maiden China: Yeah. I would also like to blame that on RuPaul's Drag Race.

SKIM: Mhm.

Maiden China: Just like competition mindset, especially like so much of like what people are being judged for on that show where it's like really surface level.

SKIM: And it's so specific.

Maiden China: I think it perpetuates that in like, smaller communities. Yeah.

SKIM: Yeah.

Shay Dior: Yeah. I think also one of the things I like for me, one of my favorite things about drag in general is going to show and being introduced to new and obscure music.

Like when a performer like this does a song and it's like magical and I'm like, I need to know what this is, who this is right now. And I always like I also want to try and do that a lot in my drag, but at the same time um, experimenting with new numbers.

A lot of times, like if an audience doesn't know it, they aren't as inclined to tip you. A lot of times they want a lot of audiences want songs that they know the words to or like have her and is like top 40 and is like dancing along.

SKIM: Ed Sheeran. 🤡 🤡 🤡

Maiden China: Oh, my God.

Shay Dior: The one exception.

Shay Dior: So, like, I yeah, a lot of times I like, put that priority in the back burner if I'm like, Oh, I need a song that's going to like make a lot of money and be a crowd pleaser. So, there's that balance that you have to find. And sometimes I don't. I don't want that balance.

SKIM: It's frustrating because like, once you start becoming like, like a known drag performer, you like know what the audience wants and you know what will make you more money. So, it's always like this constant battle of like, oh, should I do something that I actually want to do or something that will actually make me money? 

Shay Dior: Especially since, like all of us now are, it's like our main, more main source of income.

Maiden China: Yeah. The economy of it all is very frustrating. 😓

SKIM: Yeah.

SKIM: Are there any questions you wanted to ask or anything else you wanted to add to our conversation?

Shay Dior: Who are your favorites of the House of Rice?

Maiden China: This is a rude question. 🫠

Maiden China, Shay Dior, SKIM: 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣

Edited Robot Voice: Shay asks her SKIM and Maiden China's favorites in the house of Rice. Skim says themselves and Maiden refuses to answer. Shay expects them to say Shay, but they do not. Lol. 🤖

SKIM: Yes. Amazing! Thank you so much. Maiden China and Shay Dior for joining us. Thank you, Helena, for being our sound technician. And thank you Elliott, who is not here, but we love you so much. ❤️ 🧡 💛 💚 💙 💜 🖤 🤍 🤎

Shay Dior: Thank you to the Polygon.

Maiden China: Yes, thank you for having us. Bye! 😹

Shay Dior: Bye! 😹

SKIM: Bye. XO XO 😹